Infernals CID

    • Chevelle schrieb:

      Ich meine, wir reden hier von grundlegenden Mechaniken, welche die ganze Fraktion betreffen. Die sollten doch am Anfang der Entwicklung stehen, und dann kann man mit dem eigentlichen balancing der Modelle anfangen. Aber wenn man mitten im CID diese grundlegenden Regeln umwerfen möchte, wie soll da am Ende ein gutes balancing heraus kommen?
      Stimmt schon, dass es zeitlich echt kurz gefasst ist. Aber besser kurz als garnicht. Vielleicht fließen die Erfahrungen aus diesen CID ja in die nächste Fraktionsentwicklung ein und die Spieler werden früher gefragt.


      Zu der Idee mit dem Schaden, wenn die beschworen werden:

      Horrors sind ja nicht gerade tanky und wenn das Ding direkt angreifen soll werden sich alle Armeen mit countercharge und retalitory Strike freuen. Ist aber an sich eine interessante Idee.
    • Ich bin jetzt nicht beim CID dabei und habe nur bisher auch nur begrenzt Erfahrung mit Paingiver Beast Handlern.

      Aber davon ausgehend würde es schon einne Unterschied machen, wenn man so 2-3 von denen B2B zum Horror kriegen will, um ihn zu heilen.
      Einmal schlicht von der Platzierung her und zum anderen geben sie danach attraktivere Grüppchen für AoE's ab.

      Das wär vielleicht interessant, weil die ja auch noch für die Master geopfert werden müssen.
    • Summoning ist die zentrale Mechanik bei Infernals. Ähnlich wie bei dem Grymkin.
      Dementsprechend testen sie dort einiges.

      Ich finde es sehr gut das sie auf Feedback und Diskussionen hören und diese mit einbeziehen.

      Nach Meinen Erfahrungen wird das neue experimentelle Summoning jedoch nicht bleiben. Es macht für beide Seiten keinen Spaß und braucht eine Menge Verwaltung.

      Man braucht mind 4 Kultisten um einen Horror voll einsatzfähig zu bekommen. 3 weiter für die Essence. Dazu die run/charge Änderungen nehmen eine Menge Power aus der Fraktion.
      Meine Taktik? Axt ins Gesicht! Was braucht man mehr?
    • Infernals CID Week 3 Update

      Today, 01:23 PM
      Alright, update time!

      First, I'm going to pass the baton to Lead Designer Jason Soles to explain some pretty significant changes coming to Summoning. I'll pick things back up after the Summoning changes and explanations. Here we gooooo~!!

      ---

      Replace the text of Sacrifice with the following:
      To replenish its essence points during your Control Phase, this model must choose a friendly non-soulless model in its control range. Troopers that are out of formation cannot be chosen. Remove the chosen model from play and this model gains essence points so that it has a number equal to its current ESSENCE.

      Infernal Masters can now replenish their essence points by sacrificing any friendly Faction non-soulless model. This is effectively not a change to how the Faction functions, but is necessary because Cultist Bands are no longer marked souls.


      Replace the text of Summoning with the following:
      Summoning allows an infernal master to expend essence points to summon a horror from beyond time and space to add to its battlegroup.

      An infernal master can summon a horror during its activation by spending a number of essence points equal to the base ESSENCE stat of the horror summoned. An infernal master can summon up to one horror each turn.

      When an infernal master summons a horror, choose a friendly marked soul currently in the master’s control range. Replace the chosen marked soul with the horror and remove the marked soul from play. The horror enters play with one essence point. The horror is part of the infernal master’s battlegroup. A horror must forfeit its Combat Action the turn it is summoned.

      Adding free horrors to the Infernal player's army every turn is proving game breaking in its effectiveness. Additionally, we wanted to see impactful cost associated with summoning so players may be less incentivized to summon horrors every turn. Instead of being able to summon an endless tide of horrors for little or no cost, players now have more finite resources to draw upon and their choices have consequences.

      We will also be maintaining the stipulation that horrors must forfeit their Combat Actions the turn they are summoned to maintain counter play in the game. It is our findings that being able to add horrors to an army is a solid enough advantage that for the sake of balance we cannot also allow those models to take a Combat Action.

      To ensure that summoned horrors maintain some presence on the battlefield, we are also introducing some new passive effects to those that did not already have them.

      ---

      Alright, there you have it. I'm also going to provide a quick overview of these for simple digestion as well. Please make sure you refer to these main rules for completion, this is only a brief description:
      • Cultists and Dark Sentinels lose Marked Soul
      • Replenishing Essence works the same, except you must sacrifice a non-Soulless model (aka, basically everything in the army that isn't actually an Infernal from outside time-and-space)
      • You can Summon during your Master's activation, and the Summoned Horror loses it's Combat Action
      • To Summon, you ALSO have sacrifice a model with Marked Soul (Roget, Regna, Valin, Mordecai, Faustus, Kezia, Gideon, the Wretches) along with paying the Essence cost
      • Yes, Regna also needs to sacrifice to Summon
      • When you Summon the Horror, it replaces the model you sacrificed (so don't put that model in a place where you can't place the Horrors base!)
      This is just a brief run-down, so please make sure you refer to the actual rules Jason provided above.


      Now, let's move onto other model changes.


      Agathon
      Change it's Feat to
      Feat: Well of Sorrow
      When an enemy model casts a spell while in Agathon’s control range, increase the COST of the spell by 1. Additionally, while in Agathon’s control range, models gain one additional dice on their magic attack rolls and magic attack damage rolls. For each of those attack rolls, you choose one of the dice rolled to be discarded. Well of Sorrow lasts for one round.


      We wanted to take another direction for Agathon. We were looking for something that plays into Agathon's nature as a pinnacle of arcane might. We decided to go with a feat that 1) punishes your opponent for casting and then 2) amps up your own casting potential. Let us know how this feels in battle reports!


      Omodamos
      Remove Vengeful
      Add Flashing Blade


      Simple game play improvement. Vengeful just wasn't doing much. We don't necessarily need a high-impact, cast-this-every-turn spell in that spot, but we wanted to give him something he would consider casting in the right situation. We think Flashing Blade is that right spell, as it let's him get in and really turn things to mush.


      ---


      So, we are making some changes to most of the horrors by adding what we are calling passive effects. In most cases, we simply gave them a rule, and the goal is to provide something for them to do, passively, on the turn they are summoned. Obviously, almost all of these effects persist throughout the entire duration of the game, but our primary goal was to make your positioning of how you summon them a bit more relevant. Of these, only the Desolator truly gained an effect that triggers off of summoning, but we think all of these go a long way to giving the Horrors a "job when summoned." We feel that the Foreboder as a Channeler and the Lamenter with it's Soul Parasites already have these elements.


      Soul Stalker
      Add Soul Ward
      Soul Ward - Enemy models cannot gain soul tokens from models destroyed in this model’s command range.


      Tormentor
      Add Countercharge
      Countercharge - When an enemy model advances and ends its movement within 6˝ of this model and in its LOS, this model can immediately charge it. This model can use Countercharge only once per round and not while engaged.


      Desolator
      Add Anathema
      Anathema - When this model is summoned, center a 4˝ AOE cloud effect on it. Enemy models entering the AOE suffer one point of corrosion damage XICONX. The AOE remains in play for one round.


      Lamenter
      Change Essence to 3


      Shrieker
      Add Wailing
      Wailing - While within 5˝ of this model, enemy models cannot give or receive orders and cannot cast spells.


      ---


      Cultist Band and Dark Sentinel
      Remove Dark Cult
      Increase the RNG of Touch of Darkness (★Action) to 3.


      As part of the change discussed by Jason at the top of this post, Cultists and Dark Sentinels are no longer Marked Souls. You can still sacrifice them to replenish Essence, but you can not use them to summon. We have increased the range of Touch of Darkness though, to make healing a bit easier.


      Great Princess Regna Gravnoy
      Add to Master Infernalist:
      This model must have at one horror in its battlegroup at the start of the game.


      Regna now must begin the game with a Horror in her battlegroup. She can still only summon and control lights and lessers. Remember, if she dies, her Horror is removed, because yes, she can in fact sacrifice herself to summon a Horror, which then immediately disappears. Value!


      The Wretch
      Change Point Cost from 3 to 4
      Remove Mortal Fear


      Add Entropic Force:
      Entropic Force - While within 5˝ of this model, enemy models lose Tough XICONX and cannot have damage removed from them.


      Gain Ancillary Attack (★Action) as a Magic Ability spell:
      Ancillary Attack (★Action) - RNG 3. Target friendly Faction horror. If the horror is in range, it immediately makes one basic melee or ranged attack. A horror can be targeted by an Ancillary Attack special action only once per turn.


      With the summoning changes, we wanted to give the Wretch a bit more of an identity, and to make it not be the model you automatically reach for to sacrifice for summoning. Ancillary Attack in particular leads to an interesting decision tree of "do I sacrifice this model, or do I sacrifice another model so that I can utilize ancillary on the model just summoned?" for example.


      We also weren't super happy with mortal fear, and opted instead for Entropic Force to give it a kind of withering aura.


      Mordecai, Master of Arms
      Remove Sow Discord


      Change the text of Shadow to:
      Shadow - Choose an enemy model/unit in this model’s command range. If the enemy model/unit advances during its activation, one friendly warrior model in this model’s command range can immediately make a full advance. Shadow lasts for one round.


      Add Valley of Woe:
      Valley of Woe - Choose an enemy warrior model/unit in this model’s command range. The enemy model/unit loses Pathfinder XICONX and cannot gain it for one round.


      Sow Discord has been removed. We have exchanged it for a Plan that removes Pathfinder. I think this gives us the disruption we're looking for without it being quite the Mobile Oppression Palace is was previously. His Plans are all back to being Choose and not Target, and not requiring LOS. Keep us in the loop on that one, let us know how that feels.


      Infernal Gate
      Remove Infernal Portal.


      With the change to summoning, we decided to remove Infernal Portal.
      Dateien

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Chevelle ()

    • Was mich als jemanden den die Fraktion aber überhaupt nicht anspricht sehr freut weil ich dann das Beschwören durch gezielte Jagd auf Solos begrenzen kann.

      Außerdem wird es Umbral Guardians weniger interessant machen weil sie nicht als Opfer dienen können.

      Ich finde Beschwören hat immer noch nichts im Spiel verloren, aber so hat es wenigstens Kosten und kann vom Gegner kontrolliert werden.
    • Man wird bis auf den Junior alle Solos mitnehmen. egal wie gut oder schlecht sie sind.

      Wretches sind natürlich primär Ziele, aber auch ordentlich besser geworden.

      Das Gate ist mMn jetzt nutzlos geworden.

      Umbral Guardians muss man jetzt anders benutzen, da es viel darum geht solos zu schützen

      Ich denke wenn das summoning so bleibt muss man die Horrors wieder hoch drehen.
      Meine Taktik? Axt ins Gesicht! Was braucht man mehr?
    • Die Idee finde ich richtig gut weil es eine Möglichkeit zum Counter Play eröffnet. Vorher gab es nichts, was ich als Gegner dagegen machen könnte, außer dabei zuschauen. Jetzt nicht mehr, bin für alles was beide Spieler teilnehmen lässt, statt nur einem.

      Balance ist dann wieder ne andere Frage, die muss dann in der Fraktion natürlich stimmen. Aber die Mechanik soll bitte (weitestgehend) so bleiben.
    • Was mir an der Idee mit dem Beschwören aktuell sehr gut gefällt ist, dass man jetzt indriekt Punkte für die Beschworenen Horrors bezahlt. Mindestens 4 (Auch wenn das Solo gratis mitgenommen wurde hat man diese Punkte ja weniger in der Armee). Das bedeutet, dass man erstens nicht mehr unbegrenzt Horrors spawnen kann, zweitens, dass man gegen Ende des Spiels oft auch einfach keine Solos mehr hat. Das alles vorrausgesetzt, dass man immer genug Kultisten dabei hat um die essenz zu erneuern.
      Die 4 Punkte sind dann zwar günstig und mna hat auch den vorteil situativ entscheiden zu können, aber man zahlt obendrein noch einen Großteil seiner Essenz für den Zug und kann auch nicht gleich angreifen. Vom Gefühl her scheint das bislang die beste Lösung zu sein.
    • Neu

      Weiter gehts...


      Infernals CID Week 3 Update 2

      Today, 01:38 PM
      I HAVE AN UPDATE FOR YOU!

      However, don't sweat it, this one is not a drastic one. In fact, the bulk of this change is simply us reverting a lot of the week 2 changes to bring back the effectiveness of some models/rules/points/etc.

      There is one mechanics change, which is that Summoning now occurs in CMD range, instead of CTRL range. Additionally, all of the Masters have had their CMD increased to 12. This change will not impact Omodamos, or Regna. It will have a minor 2" reduction affect on Zaateroth, and a slightly bigger 6" change for Agathon. This change was two-fold: first, it was to remove a potential top-of-one-firing-into-deployment edge case, and secondly, it makes all of the Masters equally capable of Summoning, so that there is parity between them in this regard. Other than that, Summoning remains exactly as we laid it out in yesterdays update. It is probably fair to assume at this point that this current version of Summoning is here to stay, so hammer away at it!

      Here is the new language for Summoning:

      Summoning change:
      Summoning allows an infernal master to expend essence points to summon a horror from beyond time and space to add to its battlegroup.

      An infernal master can summon a horror during its activation by spending a number of essence points equal to the base ESSENCE stat of the horror summoned. An infernal master can summon up to one horror each turn.

      When an infernal master summons a horror, choose a friendly marked soul currently in the master’s command range. Replace the chosen marked soul with the horror and remove the marked soul from play. The horror enters play with one essence point. The horror is part of the infernal master’s battlegroup. A horror must forfeit its Combat Action the turn it is summoned.

      This is a change from control range to command range.

      Now, onto the goodies.

      Agathon
      CMD 12
      Change Dark Mysteries from Marked Souls to non-Soulless Warrior Model

      Dark Mysteries was a victim of the Marked Souls change. This reverts it to triggering off all the things we want it to trigger off of.

      Omodamos
      CMD 12
      Change Locked Horns from Battlegroup only to all friendly Faction models

      Tormentor
      Change MAT 6 to MAT 7

      Desolator
      Change RAT 5 to RAT 6

      Cultist Band
      Change Point Cost 6/9 to 5/7

      Howlers
      Change Point Cost from 10/16 to 9/15

      Great Princess Regna Gravnoy
      Change Point Cost from 5 to 4
      Allow her to Summon and control Heavy Horrors

      Regna's had her stock drop with the recent change. Now that she also needs to start with a Horror in her group, that opportunity cost alone made her difficult to include, combine that up with doubling the rate at which you could potentially gobble Marked Souls, there was a lot of lost incentive to use her. The cost reduction should help her a bit, and the ability to bring in Heavy Horrors again should make her a bit more appealing to put on the table. Let us know how this feels in your battle reports, we want to make sure she is a useful addition to your army.

      IMPORTANT NOTE:

      This is a quick, small update to address a couple small issues we wanted to resolve. We expect to have a larger, more comprehensive update within the next day or two once we have sufficiently collected playtest data. Keep those batreps coming in, so we can get a clear picture of the direction we want to take these models. Thanks for all your patience and hard work, everyone!
      Dateien